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Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.03 18:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I guess I'm one of the higher KDR-rated snipers, and I figured I'd impart some of my experiences with sniping unto other people, so that we can collectively demonstrate how broken sniping is and get CCP to nerf it. Right now I have about 1100 kills as a sniper, and although most of my deaths are from when I played infantry, my KDR is at 11.25, making me #6. In the corp battles this weekend I went 132-7 over the 9 games I played. I usually get somewhere between 10 - 30 kills per game and die 0 - 1 times.
General Thoughts My general impression of sniping is that it's incredibly easy, safe, and powerful. Unmatched by any other playstyle, in fact. It takes a minimal amount of skills and ISK to ruin everyone's day as a sniper. While tanks at least have to put hundreds of thousands if not millions of ISK on the line to dominate, you only need to put a few thousand. What's more, sniping takes very little skill and about the best you can do is effectively placing yourself on the battlefield.
Sniper Rifles Sniper rifle shots are instantaneous, and they have a base range of something like 500 m. Maybe the tactical variants have a longer range, I don't know, I never bother using them. You'll know if you're out of range, because your reticule will not turn red when you place it over a visible enemy. But, anyway, you don't need to lead your targets -- just push the trigger when the dot is over them. The best rifle is the charge sniper rifle, by a large margin. It's a standard-tier rifle, which means it has low CPU/PG requirements, and it does the most damage per shot of any sniper rifle. It also costs only 6.5k. This means that you can use it with a new character and Sniper Rifle Operations I, it is cheap, and it will let you fit lot's of other stuff because of its low suit drain. What's more, the ability to one-shot-kill many people with body shots is a major advantage over other rifles. Killing someone without giving them the ability to react is about the worst experience ever, and while it could use a good nerfing, in the meantime it'll make you a scourge. Probably worth pointing out that killing someone instantly also means they have no idea what direction you shot from.
Suits Scout suit -- Sucks. It's okay only because hit detection is especially bugged with these suits, and sometimes you will survive numerous killing shots through simply existing. However, the fewer high power module slots, and low shield/armor, are liabilities. Speed is not very important when you're crouched down all game.
Assault suit -- Maybe the best. Has a sidearm, equipment slot for a nano hive, good durability, good speed, and good slots.
Logistics suit -- Not too bad. Excessive equipment slots and no sidearm, slightly less durable than assault. Caps out with one more high slot than assault suits, though. Assault is probably better at lower levels, logistics... might be better at prototype? Either way, an okay choice.
Heavy suit -- Unless you're sniping in tandem with someone packing a nano hive, or near a supply depot, it's worthless as a sniping suit. Being unable to carry your own nano hive is a huge liability. Slow speed is a liability as well. Limited high slots do not impress. The durability of the suit only becomes a factor if you screw up and expose yourself long enough to get shot.
Mods Weapon upgrades for high slots, for low slots focus on armor repair and armor plating. Always have a nano hive (you don't need anything but the standard tier kind) and try to keep locus grenades fit. Grenades are about the only way you can kill a strafing scout at close range. Pack a pistol or SMG if you can. Durability is a lower priority than damage, so take shield mods and throw them out the window. At higher suit levels you may want to consider the sprint speed mod instead of another set of armor plates (being really slow kind of sucks).
Tactics The way people die as snipers is by getting on top of a hill that's exposed to the majority of the map and sitting there until they get shot. The best way to approach sniping, in my experience, is to treat it like bow hunting. Cut a lane for yourself that you'll shoot through. Find a high traffic area you can cover, and place yourself in cover such that the only way you can be shot is if someone is in front of you, in your shooting lane. Don't move around a lot. Stay crouched as much as you can given terrain wonkiness.
Ideally, the places you'll cover will be avenues of approach to objectives. If you can cover the objectives themselves, all the better. But do not ever sit on to of a hill or someplace where anyone on the map can see you. You will get seen by an enemy, and then you'll get killed by an enemy sniper.
You can be aggressive as a sniper, but do the obvious and hang back from the main thrusts. Take one shot, and then displace. You will have enemy snipers shooting at you, most likely, so if you hunker down for long you will die. If you can manage it, take shots from standing so that you are moving as much as possible. Don't be afraid to pull out your sidearm or use your grenades instead of taking a shot with your rifle.
Don't do Mondays. Always give 110%. You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps.
The Future What I'd like to see happen to sniping is a damage decrease across the board, for tracers to be added to sniper rifles, and permanent rifle sway even when crouched. Sniping takes very little skill, currently, is very safe, and can too easily one-shot people. I'd like to see all of those things change. Would this make sniping underpowered? I don't know, but isn't it better to err on the side of underpowered? If sniping is too good, everyone suffers. If sniping is too weak, only the snipers suffer.
If anyone wants to be a leet icy hot snipah killah, this guide will set you aright. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.03 19:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Right now ccp have gotten rid of the hp bonuses to advanced and proto suits and thats one of the reasons it has been so easy to one shot everyone
Hasn't even been a week of this change yet. Many people in corp wars took two shots to drop anyway. In random battles I don't believe people used advanced/proto suits, so the change hasn't really been so significant there. Either way, you can one-shot virtually every non-heavy with a charge rifle in regular battles where people are saving money by using mediocre gear.
And I think the Ishukone sucks. 60 CPU and 10 PG more or something for 37 less damage than charge rifle. Plus it's almost 10x as expensive. The slight effective increase in rate-of-fire isn't worth that in my opinion. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.03 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:Instead of nerfing sniping, I'd like the see the risk vs reward go up. Make sniper rifles cost 5x as much if not more. It'll keep the amount of snipers down without making them useless. Weapon swap is a crappy idea but its nessessary when its overpowered. Right now its not overpowered due to the fact snipers aren't suited to take objectives.
That would make it inaccessible to snipers who are more on the mediocre side. People who like sniping, and are okay with it, but nonetheless die several times every game. That's not cool. Even if someone isn't the best sniper, if they enjoy it they shouldn't be prevented from doing it so arbitrarily. Meanwhile, the snipers who've read my amazing thread will very rarely die (especially if they avoid Ambush) and will be essentially unaffected by the price hike.
I don't think that's a good fix. I think adding a big, obvious blue-white railgun tracer, as per EVE, is the way to go. Paint a big arrow saying "here I am" to let enemies find and kill snipers more easily. Add a little permanent sway and lower rifle damage and you're set. Sniping will be harder and less safe, so fewer people will do it, but the ones who really enjoy it will be able to stick with it anyway.
Alamo TAYLOR1 wrote:all caps nonsense
Please tell me more about how railgun sniper rifles work in a futuristic battlefield where cybernetically enhanced super-soldier clones are armed with plasma-shooting assault rifles, advanced body armour, and personal shields.
Even though you don't deserve it for writing like a tool, I'll respond to the general sentiment. Realism is not as important as gameplay. What matters is what's fun and what's not. It's not fun to have snipers one-shot people from across the map at little to no risk to themselves. Whether it would be "realistic" for charged railgun sniper rifle shots to do only 159 damage instead of 259 damage I'll leave to you, mysterious person from the future, but I am going to tell you that the future isn't so fun if that's the case.
Jin Robot wrote:People need to stop staying in one spot, of course its easy to kill someone with a sniper rifle when they are just standing exposed. You guys do understand how snipers work, right?
You aren't going to kill very many people if all you're doing is shooting stationary targets. The majority of players are always on the move. And it's easy to kill people sprinting perpendicular to you at 500 m away, too. You just put your reticule in front of them and wait until the pass in front of it. Then they're dead. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 21:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Akuzuma Oppa wrote:Snipers like to tickle my fat suit, heavy for life!
Heavies die in ~3 hits post-hotfix, not including headshots.
MrShooter01 wrote:Respectfully disagree on scout suit assessment
When I mean "sniper" I mean someone who is actively sniping the entire game. Being a scout suit user and sniping if you see an enemy sniper is its own thing. But yeah, that thing you described there, a scout suit would work well for that, in part due to the horrible scout suit hit detection currently.
RankRancid wrote:Enter prototype gear.
Did you reach end game gear last build?
Will answer everything for me.
Last build? No. I wasn't a sniper last build either, though. Anyway, what happened last build that "answers everything"?
Most people were using their Sunday best during the corp battles though, so I'm okay with how high-end gear pans out against snipers for the most part in terms of damage, but most battles won't be fought against people with prototype suits armored to the ****. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.03 22:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
RankRancid wrote:Played nearly every corp match. Didn't see 1 prototype suit. Loads of prototype weapons though.
I don't really look at suit types beyond assault/heavy/etc, so I can't really compare. Either way, as mentioned, it isn't top-tier sniping builds vs. top-tier everything-else builds. Infantry people won't rock top-tier fits for average games, from what I've seen.
Quote:Anyway I think I just read you suggesting snipers will do better if they avoid ambush? Avoid the mode where you will get the most sp if you are one of those mountain goat snipers. Maybe that's why snipers complain about so little sp when I would have proto gear now with my 8mil sp if I didn't spread my sp across the board again.
I said they'd rarely die if they avoid Ambush. Ambush is fun, but deaths during the initial 30 seconds can be rather arbitrary, depending on where you spawn. It was more of a quip than an actual suggestion. I don't know that Ambush is better for SP than Skirmish, and it's hard enough to get in a game that I'd never seriously recommend people avoid Ambush.
Quote:CCP if it will stop all this sniper whine,I beg you to change it back.
By "all this sniper whine" I assume you mean... just me? I've been pretty disappointed with it, but whenever I make comments about snipers being too effective currently, I never get any traction. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.03 23:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Eternal Technique wrote:As far as your assesment for dropsuits is concerned I would agree for the most part but once cloaking is introduced, scout suits will be the best option for snipers.
Have they released details on them yet? Are they high power slot things? What's their CPU/PG like? Scout suits already have low CPU/PG. Taking a high power slot to presumably move unseen to your sniper position, or to run away if someone gets too close, would be of limited value in my opinion. I'd rather put a complex upgrade in there, as it will benefit you every time you shoot someone, whereas a cloak would only benefit you infrequently. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 19:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nazkim wrote:Sitting around crouched killwhoring the whole game is fairly easy and boring. Moving around the map in a scout suit covering your team, scouting and spotting enemies ect. is what we should be talking about when trying to write a guide on how to snipe.
This is a fantastic guide to get a great KDR. If that is your goal, sniping is a viable way to make it to the top. When I play my AR/Logi character, I do better contribution wise but not KDR wise. When I am running around with him trying to win the match, it is just simply baffling to me why the snipers on our team are sitting in the back of the map or on a mountain not doing anything at all for the objective. Cool bro you went 15-1 or whatever, but we just lost the match because you weren't sniping the enemies engaging and, because of you, outnumbering your team. Now they can't take the objective. This isn't directed at anyone in particular. I just see it a lot, and it becomes painstakingly obvious when playing an AR character as somebody who primarily snipes.
In the corp battles I totally shut down the other team attempting to hack one of our objectives a number of times. They'd fly by in a dropship or in a LAV and some guys would get out at an undefended objective, and then they would all die. I also saved many allies by thinning the enemy numbers around an objective, or taking out their snipers, or killing enemies en route to reinforce an objective we're pushing. Regular non-corp maps aren't any different.
Either way, the idea that being a sniper means not being a team player is silly. Maybe the people you save from an enemy coming up behind them with a shotgun never know they were saved by you. Maybe nobody ever really recognizes that you prevented an objective from being taken by a few enemies. But if you have half a mind to help your team win, it's very easy to do that while also being a few hundred metres away from the objectives you're guarding. The only caveat is that people who don't snipe will sometimes accuse you of not helping out your team. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.05 05:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Otosan Ookami wrote:I'll admit to making kills past 700m now... how far? Lets not spoil the surprise.
Is the answer "large railgun installations"? |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nazkim wrote:It is awesome that you help your team, but you are in the minority.
Well, this was partly my point. How would you tell? What does it look like when a sniper stops an otherwise undefended objective from being taken? Or when a sniper kills someone who was about to put a breach shotgun up your ass? It's hard to imagine someone being successful as a sniper while not being a positive contribution to their team. Where exactly are the enemies they're killing, if not the ones targeting the sniper's team mates, or attacking friendly objectives, or defending hostile objectives? |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.05 20:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eternal Technique wrote:Let me guess, objective B on the volcano map? That objective is special in that if you spawn on the right side of the map a sniper can shut down that objective without exposing yourself. Plus you can easily shift positions to look at C. Most objectives in this game are not this sniper friendly
Personally I prefer a shoot and move style of play, moving to cover whatever squad I am playing with. In any case, the way I see it if a sniper is getting a good number of kills covering an objective he is helping his team regardless of whether he is in a mountain or moving around just off an objective area.
Both A and B. The fighting was around C, the enemy's closest objective, and I was in a place where I could move a bit and cover A and B both fairly easily. But yeah, it varies by maps. Usually you can only cover one. On Plateaus, depending the side you spawn on, you can cover a nice area of the map and also have B right below you, so you can cover it. There are certain spots on the other map where you can cover most of two or even three objectives on one map while also being relatively safe from enemies.
Although of course covering these as a sniper gives you a relatively limited window to stop the enemy, as the huuuuege hit boxes the objectives have make people 100% safe from fire if they're on the opposite side of them. Which is pretty annoying. |
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Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.06 00:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:Damn at all the nerf threads. Snipers should be feared on the battlefield, it seems that many are not in this game. A sniper is supposed to OHK you as well, that's the point of being a sniper. One Shot One Kill.
How bout we just give everyone pea shooters and let them run around with those. No different guns, no skills to train, no levels of weapons. Just a ******* peashooter. Then everyone can run around bunny hopping and shooting peas at each other, and then no one can call for a nerf.
Jesus if you can't handle snipers, learn to counter snipe, or get yourself a better suit.
Don't be so emotional, please. This is a cool thread for cool dudes to just mosey on by and talk about their feelings in. Your negative waves are spoiling the mood.
The point of snipers is to shoot people at long range. Whether they die in one hit or not isn't important to being a sniper. The best sniping I have ever experienced in a game was Planetside 1. The bolt driver in that game was perfect. Nobody could die in one shot unless they were previously wounded, or were in the weakest armor types (like the cloaking suit). Everytime you moved the reticule in that game, the reticule would bloom like crazy, forcing you to anticipate your target's movement. The bolt you fired also had travel time, meaning you needed to properly gauge speed and distance of the target. And when you fired, the round left a bright, orange-red tracer from the barrel of your gun to wherever the shot hit.
That was great sniping. It took skill, it was more about suppression and harassment than killing masses of enemies, and it didn't cramp the infantry game much at all. Even with a bunch of snipers firing away, you could still have good, fun infantry battles.
So I reject the idea that one-hit-kills are integral to sniping. They are quite useful to be able to have as a sniper, but they aren't what defines you.
Slam Pig Cephalopod wrote:I use the militia sniper rifle most of the time. It is free and you would be amazed at how many people will just stand still if the first shot doesn't take them out. That having been said, I usually try for the head shot if they aren't moving anyways. Since most people are using cheaper gear it isn't a problem to one-shot.
In my experience most people do not stand still when shot. This is one of the reasons I don't like the Ishukone rifle. Lower damage means fewer one-shot-kills, which means more people scrambling for cover after your first hit just wings them.
Also, the militia rifle seems like it has a degree of inaccuracy. I should take it for another spin, but I remember feeling like I was hitting people with no result -- not even the characteristic shield flash of a legitimate hit that hit detection deprives you of. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.06 20:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:In this game being a successful sniper also relies heavily on opposing team being idiots, not that I mind getting 7-0 or better scores in a match just like everyone else.
I don't agree with that. People who die to snipers aren't idiots, they're just unlucky. It is essentially impossible to be safe from snipers. You can reduce your risk to an extent by stay in cover, as much as possible, using militia LAVs a lot, and so on, but eventually you need to run somewhere on foot, out in the open. And when you're there, there's very little you can do but pray to Odin you make it to your destination.
Honestly, I do not like the attitude that if someone dies to a sniper it was their fault. I see this fairly often, here. "Well don't stand still next time." "Well don't expose yourself." "Why didn't you find the sniper and kill him, then?" The list goes on. Pretty snide. These people are just trying to have fun playing as an infantry guy. They have tanks slaughtering them, other infantry shooting them, LAVs running them over, and guys 300 m away shooting them while calling them idiots. Give them a break, man. Their job is a million times harder than yours. |
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